Meet Gail Zurek, a current San Joaquin College of Law student and President & CEO of the Visalia Chamber of Commerce. As a California Lutheran University graduate with a Communications degree, Gail is passionate about working with business owners and providing more value to her community through her law degree.
Learn more about Gail, including her unconventional path to law school as a second career, how she combines her study and family time, and how the 2022 Women of the Year for California’s 16th Senate District balances going to law school while working full time and raising a family.
What Did Your Road to Law School Look Like?
I think my road probably looked different from what most people would imagine is typical and I think that’s true for a lot of SJCL students. I have a very full career and family, but I’ve always wanted to go to law school. I was talking to my dad one day and he said “you’ve talked about law school for well over 25 years, I don’t understand why you don’t just go back and do it.” And I laughed because I run a very large business organization, I have two teenagers and I'm married. To me, law school isn't something somebody does on a whim. But he was like “it's not a whim, this is a lifelong dream and passion of yours and this is the right time for you.” So I did some exploration and attended an LSAT Prep Night and a Law School 101 and talked to some alumni and started to feel like this might be the right thing for me.
Then we had a really hard family meeting where I sat down with them and said “look, if I go to law school, this basically means I work and I go to school and I've got about four hours on a Sunday morning where we go to church and that's like my family time. Are you guys really sure about this?” I still get emotional thinking about it, but my oldest son looked at me during that meeting and said “Mom, your whole life is about fighting for businesses in this community and you fight for this family, it's probably time you fight for yourself. This is something that's for you and there's no other reason that is greater than you doing this for yourself.” So I decided to apply and now, my husband and I joke on Sunday nights while we have a glass of wine and I decide whether or not I'm gonna go another week because thinking about going four years seems completely overwhelming. And there are some weeks, honestly, that I enthusiastically say “yes” and there are other weeks where I am like “we might need to talk again halfway through.” But I'm in my third year now and I can almost see the finish line.
How Did Your Interest in Law Start 25 Years Ago?
I was the kid that liked to read the rule book. When you play a board game, there's always the one kid who's like “we’ll figure it out as we go,” but I was the kid that wanted to know all the rules so that I knew how to follow them, how to get around them and I wanted to know when others were breaking them. So for me, law school feels like I get to read the rule book. I think every kid has a romanticized notion of law because the media does a great job of that. But as a working adult dealing with contracts and, through the city, we’ve done work with property law, with zoning and ordinances that the city's involved in, so it’s a different view.
Where Did Your Passion for Helping Local Businesses Come From?
For many, many reasons, but there are two very specific things. My father and grandfather owned their own real estate firm when I was a kid and it was at a time when the real estate market was awful. Interest rates for homes were like 19%, so it would be like buying a house on a credit card the way that we think about it now. Because of that, along with other reasons, their business wasn't successful and I watched what was initially their dream to own and operate their own business turn into a business that closed and what that meant for my dad and our family. I also learned the realities prior to that, frankly, of him being a business owner. The only way we made money is if he sold a house, so there wasn’t a guaranteed income. As much as I think there's some glamor behind owning a business and people think it's a great way to get rich quickly, that certainly was not my experience growing up. We used to joke that you could tell how well we were doing by what was on our plate and I always tease that my mom did some amazing things with potatoes. That's no deference to my father's selling skills or ultimately what his career did with real estate, but that experience was very formative for me. I then had the opportunity to work for some small businesses throughout my career and I worked for the Better Business Bureau for a period of time. Now as President & CEO of the Visalia Chamber of Commerce, I work with lots of local businesses and these are folks who have a dream that their product or service could make a difference and could help people. This was crystallized for me during the pandemic during the initial shutdown when businesses had to close their doors. When I talked to business owners, the phone calls I got weren't from people wondering if they were going to go on vacation this year or how to pay for some kind of luxury item. Business owners were trying to figure out how to keep their employees employed and how they could help their employees. Their real concern wasn't about the things that I think popular media has romanticized about what it means to be this “business owner.” I'm not helping Elon Musk, you know what I mean? I'm helping these little guys who are like “you know what, I make really great cookies, I should start a bakery.” Those are the guys that have a dream, so being able to help them and understand what the law means, that's the thing I'm really passionate about and going through contracts and property and, frankly, all of the classes that we take, for me, relates back to me being a more effective advocate for them to be successful.
What Made You Decide to Attend San Joaquin College of Law?
It was proximity, although I will tell you, 45 minutes, one way, four times a week is a commitment since I'm spending eight hours of my week driving. But as I talked with locals, I learned that SJCL offered a practitioner's approach to the study of law and I appreciate that, in particular, the evening professors are working attorneys and they bring that life skill and background to the conversations surrounding a particular issue in the law. That's helpful for me because the conversation in class is “what would this mean for your client and how would you address this in real life?” Nothing against full-time faculty because I've had those and love them as well. So I’ve really benefited from being able to call those working professionals and ask them to help me think long term about what having a law degree would look like for me and I’ve benefited from their expertise in the classroom.
What’s Your Law School Experience at SJCL Been Like?
Nothing like I thought. When I started law school, we were completely on Zoom and I think the school did a great job of pushing us to form those connections electronically and to be intentional about forming those connections. It's not like we're just gonna sit in class and happen to have conversation before or after class like you normally would. You're logging onto Zoom, so it looks and feels very different. But I found that I loved the entire class on Zoom because I could see the reactions of my classmates and for me, being older than a lot of my classmates, it was a good sort of gut check so that when the professor was explaining a new topic, I could read the faces of my classmates and I realized I'm not the only one who has no idea what's happening, or I see this person nodding their head, let me message them separately and ask if I can follow up after class so that they could explain it to me. That experience of being able to see their full face was unlike any learning experience I ever had and I really enjoyed, ironically, the intimacy that it created when everybody was on Zoom. We formed text message groups, we met outside of class and more, but to me that was a real benefit. This year’s hybrid approach has been difficult, but I absolutely love being in class and having that much more organic conversation with folks.
How Important is it to Form Connections With Your Professors and Peers While You're in Law School?
In class, it's critical. I’ve found first and foremost that when I have a question and I reach out to a professor, they're so willing to work with you and they’re very understanding when you do have a question. I never get the “why don't you know this?” look or response, they really do want to hear if you're not understanding because they assume there must be somebody else who doesn't. So if I've taken time on a class break or in an office hour to sit down with a professor to understand a topic in more detail, they've been great. In addition, when I've had a study group and reached out to a professor to say “Hey, my study group's getting together and we have a particular question about this issue or element, I've had professors jump on Zoom calls or do extra study with us, which is something I never would've expected. Every time it happens, I'm just so grateful for their willingness to do it.
As far as connections with current students, it's critical. There have been so many times where I think I understand something and it makes so much sense in my head, but in one of our group texts someone will be like, “Hey, does X plus Y equal Z?” And I'll be like “Well only if W'' and someone else will be like, “no, that's not true, actually…” And then we'll get into this really interesting conversation over text where I thought I understood something or it's happened a couple of times where I actually did totally understand it and it makes a whole lot of sense for me. So those connections become pretty critical.
What Advice Do You Have for Maintaining a Healthy Work, School and Life Balance in Law School?
I think you have to set realistic goals and be honest with yourself about what it takes to do law school. Beginning my third year, I think the Achilles heel of most working students is to think you're going to do 100% all the time and you can't. I have to prioritize and that begins for me, as silly as it sounds, by creating an Excel spreadsheet of my week. So I have an overview and then I fill in specifics and it's everything from a time slot to respond to emails or study this particular topic. I know there comes a point in my studying where I might have the time to study, but my brain is no longer absorbing the information, so I have to go do something else. I'm also really honest with myself about when I'm at my best and this is ironic because I go to school at night, but I'm a morning person. I can get a whole lot done before anybody else gets up and I'm very sharp. I get up on the weekends at 4 a.m. and I can study for four or five hours before, frankly, some of my classmates may even get up. But for me, that makes a lot of sense. So if they're texting me at 10 o'clock at night, frankly, I'm already out because I'm not any good to anybody else. It’s about knowing yourself and maximizing those times where you’re most productive. If I know I'm not going to be particularly effective at 6 o'clock at night on Saturdays, then I know that's going to be my time to sit on the couch with my husband and watch TV because I need that time as much as he does. So it’s best to be realistic about where those blocks fit.
What Advice Do You Have for Preparing Your Family For Your Law School Experience?
The guilt is real and it ties back to what I said about trying to be 100% all of the time. It isn't sustainable and I have to constantly remind myself that I put greater expectations on myself more often than those around me and I have to be really honest with them about what I'm going through. For example, I love my teenage boys, but they don't have a concept of what it means when it’s Week 12 in a 15-week semester of law school, so I have to explain to them that I need uninterrupted time.
I'm also incredibly blessed to have a partner who is understanding and willing to do a lot of the other details. We sat down at the beginning of law school and looked at our family blocks of time: we go grocery shopping, pay bills, clean the house, you know, all of the things that frankly, everybody has to do. We looked for the fastest and most effective way to do these things. For example, I loved to create a menu plan and grocery shop, but realistically that would take me an hour and a half that I just don't have. So I taught my husband how to do it and he either uses Instacart or he just figures it out himself because I don't have the time to do that anymore. So having a partner who's willing to take on a lot of those extra domestic roles is awesome. Usually twice a semester, my family will pick some times where they go to our extended family's house for the weekend so that I can have the entire weekend to study and really dig into things, so I could not do it without their help and support.
Another thing I do every semester is pick a different class to teach to one of the boys or my husband. It helps me figure it out and they ask questions because they don't know any of it. I went through Torts and my youngest son was like “Well, what about this? What does that mean?” In your Torts class, you talk about defamation and during this time, the Johnny Depp/Amber Heard trial was on. My youngest son started talking about the elements of defamation and I was surprised at first, but I realized we've covered that topic. So it was fun to see that and I’m glad I can meld family time and study time together sometimes.
What Was Your Experience Like Starting Law School as a Second Career?
Everybody walks into law school with their own baggage. I walked in thinking “Oh my gosh, I'm the oldest student in the classroom and everybody's looking at me.” What I didn't realize is the person sitting next to me was looking at me saying “I'm so young, I hope she doesn't look at me like I don't know anything.” So everybody walks in with their own baggage and has their own lens and in my experience, nobody else looks at anybody else like that because they're really focused and you honestly don't have time to look at anybody else's issues.
As somebody who's working full time while going to law school, I've actually found that it's made me better at my job. The way that I write, the way I communicate, the way I review contracts and the way I think about problems is a completely different approach. I really value that critical thinking skill that’s developed through law school classes and it’s paid dividends at the office as well.
What's Something You've Learned in Law School That Nobody Told You About?
There's a quote that sits on my desk that says “Competition isn't around me, it's within me.” When I started law school, I doubted myself by saying there were so many smart, accomplished and young people around me. I had to realize that none of those doubts had anything to do with anyone else, but they were about myself. I'm not going to law school so that I can be two class ranks ahead or two class ranks behind somebody else. I'm really going to law school for what I learn and what I ultimately can give somebody else. That’s a reminder for me because as much as SJCL is a very cooperative environment, we are still naturally competitive people. So I have to remind myself that I still do work full time and I’m still a mom and wife and those things separate me, but it also means that life looks different for me and that's a big piece for me.
Law school also humbles you and gives you confidence at the same time, which is an interesting side of the same coin. There are often times when I will square my shoulders and say “I can do this, I'm doing great” and then law school will remind me “maybe you're not as great as you think you were or this is different. I'm glad you write for business publications and have a business mind, but that's not a legal mind.” You have to think about things differently and so it's humbling to learn something different. It's also incredibly affirming when you say something in class or something finally clicks and a professor says that’s exactly what they were just saying or that you made a good point and hadn't thought of that perspective. Law school has also taught me huge time management skills and it’s taught me that if I focus, I can do far more than I ever thought possible.
What Advice Do You Have For Self Care Routines as You Go Through Law School?
I think you have to really assess what brings you joy, comfort and relaxation, and that looks different for everyone. I have a great friend who goes hiking and other friends who go for runs. I love some good soul music and I can cook without a recipe, so spending time making food for my family allows a different part of my brain to be activated and is my heart and soul speaking. I think so much of law school is about your brain, so it's easy to neglect the heart and soul. So remember to do the things that feed the heart and soul because it’s just as important as feeding the mind. For me, it's cooking, sitting out on the back patio with my husband and a glass of wine or catching part of my son’s football game or watching my other son’s short films. Those things bring me joy and remind me that my heart is just as important as my brain.
What Advice Do You Have for Students Who Are Starting Law School With Doubts and Thoughts Like You Did When You First Walked Into Class?
Law school isn't for the faint of heart. It's not something that you should do on a whim. It takes a significant amount of time and dedication, so spend some time before you get into law school to think about that time assessment and meet with your work and family members to figure out how to adjust your life so that when you do walk into class on the first day, you’ve taken care of all that and you can focus on school.
If you feel like you aren't good enough or doing it right, make friends with one or two classmates that you can have that gut check with to see if you’re studying enough or using the right approach. Professors are also exceedingly helpful. As a 1L in our Torts class, Professor Goodrich had us do a writing exercise. I'm known for being a communicator in my professional life, so when I got back her notes that said I wasn't explaining something in detail enough, I was truly lost and didn't understand how that was the case. She spent a good 30 minutes with me and ultimately said “you’re in the business world and those around you speak your language, so you're jumping from A to N without realizing you're making the jump. Your brain is working so fast that when you analyze a problem, you don't even realize you're analyzing anymore and what I'm asking you to do in law school is to stop, acknowledge the analyzing you're doing and write that down.” In truth, one of my most challenging parts of law school is to write down the analyzing piece. That conversation with Professor Goodrich and the feedback she gave me was eye-opening to not only how I communicate in law school, but how I communicate with my staff and even with my family. I was shorthanding a lot of things that, had I spent a minute and explained a bit more, everyone would have been more on the same page, so that’s been helpful.
How Does It Feel Knowing Your Juris Doctor Degree Will Open More Doors For You to Help Business Owners in the Central Valley?
I’m absolutely falling in love with law. Folks have told me that I light up when I talk about what I'm studying and learning. It’s fun and reassuring that life doesn't end at 25 when you’re supposedly supposed to have your final degree, but you can absolutely continue to learn and develop. I'm 44 now and will be 46 when I graduate from law school and there was a time when that seemed so incredibly old. Even now, there are times when I think it feels old, but there's still a lot of career life that I get to have now after I graduate from law school and it's pretty exciting to think that I have multiple chapters in my life to go. Even if I practiced law full time, it's not like the business experience I have goes away. I think I get to bring that to my clients regardless of which type of law I practice, which is the real benefit. Building relationships that are trusted and credible don't happen overnight and it doesn't happen by accident. I have lots of experience building those relationships, so a first-year law associate might sit across from an influential business executive and be intimidated. For me, those nerves were worked out a long time ago with my experience, so I can just hit the ground running to build relationships where I can be an advisor and really help my clients.
Want to learn more about San Joaquin College of Law, attend a virtual forum or set up an appointment to discuss your law school future? Contact our Assistant Director of Admissions, Francisco "Javier" Rosas, or our Director of Admissions, Diane Steel, today!