After an early experience that dealt with what he would later learn was Property Law, San Joaquin College of Law alumni Jonathan Echols (JD '14) had the desire to learn the law to protect his and his family's rights. 

Fast forward, and today, Jonathan was recently sworn into the State Bar of Texas to launch his home healthcare software with his Co-Founder and wife, Cinderela Ivory Y. Co (JD' 15). Learn more about Jonathan, including his path down Workers' Compensation law, how he maintained a relationship in law school and how he used his legal education to launch a software business. 

Tell Us About Your Journey to Law School?

I grew up on the outskirts of Fresno in the foothills, a place called O'Neals. It's close to the town of Coarsegold and a land of cattle country and land disputes. My first encounter that sparked a desire to attend law school was when we lost access to our home. We had a long driveway that led to our house, and we had an easement to use the driveway because, technically, the driveway did not exist on our land. It was partitioned before we bought the property. We'd used the driveway for a decade because that was the only way to get to our house. 

One day, a man bought the property, and when we came home, there were padlocks on the gate, and we couldn't get to our house. He said the property was his, and we could no longer use the driveway. If I had taken my Real Property class prior to this, I would've known that we had the right to continue using that driveway. Instead, because we didn't know the laws, we had to somehow adapt to not having a driveway to our house until we could pay to have a new one constructed. Not having a driveway for so long was very inconvenient because it was a very snake-like path to our house. 

That was probably my first experience with being taken advantage of because I didn't know the proper law. That kind of put me on my path to what I might want to do with the law one day. All it would've taken was an education about the property laws to know that we were completely in our right to defend ourselves from his unlawful encroachment. 

Throughout my life, I've always been fascinated with history. I attended undergraduate at UC Santa Cruz, where I specialized in Asian Islamic world history. I was always fascinated by the differences in law around the world. The definition of justice was geographic. I've traveled a lot and lived in Asia for quite some time until my grandma became ill. Then I came back to Fresno to take care of her, and San Joaquin College of Law allowed me to pursue my law degree and take care of my family simultaneously. 

Why Did You Choose to Attend San Joaquin College of Law? 

I took the LSAT and scored well enough to attend any law school, but my grandmother lived in Yosemite Lakes Parks, and SJCL is closest to her. So, to ensure that she was taken care of and still proceeded with my goals, SJCL was the clear fit. 

What Was Your Experience Like Attending San Joaquin College of Law?

I loved it. When I started classes at SJCL, I enrolled in the three year program. I made a lot of friends when I was there. I was also a treasurer for a time at the Delta Theta Phi fraternity. I did an education abroad one summer while at SJCL through Duquesne University. I went to the China University of Political Science and Law in Beijing, and I interned at a law firm that summer and worked on Chinese bankruptcy law - or should I say, more specifically, the lack thereof of bankruptcy law. 

I also became a BARBRI representative in my last year, and I was also a certified law student, so I worked on criminal defense cases for a local law firm. Law school was also where I met my wife, Cindy. So law school had a big impact on my life in many ways.

Was it Difficult to Maintain Your Relationship While Attending Law School?  

Not at all. Everybody has their own relationship in their respective lives–whether as a parent, child, spouse, friend, etc. In any relationship, I believe both parties should have a strong foundation of trust and commitment for the relationship to last successfully. My relationship with my now wife is the same. Even in the beginning, we both have well-defined expectations of each other. We respect each other's time and commitments outside of our relationship. Law school is a commitment in and of itself, and each of us has different commitments to law school–me being a full-time law student, while she is a part-time student, and while working a full-time job. We do not impose on each other's method of learning, but we always support each other's law school careers.

How Did You Maintain a Healthy Balance Between Work, School and Your Social Life?

Through sheer force and will. It's mentally difficult to do that because I ultimately felt that if I focused on one, I was failing at the others because I wasn't giving them enough time. I knew that law school was the top priority, and I made sure that it remained the top priority in everything I did. But of course, some other things would fall by the wayside. I just had to explain to the people it affected that I was sorry and that this was what I needed to focus on. They were often very understanding. 

Did You Prepare Family and Friends Before Attending Law School About the Time Commitment Law School Would Require?

I don't think anyone knows how much of a commitment it will be beforehand. Most people my age starting law school only have a small work experience and/or college experience to compare. Law school was not like college, and I wouldn't say it was comparable to prepping for the Bar. There were times when it was slow, and there were times when it was fast, and either you got it, or you had to work to get it. As law school developed, within the first few weeks, I started realizing how things were going to go. I had to explain to my friends that I wouldn't be available on the weekends. That's not to say I was never able to go out, but I always made sure that I was done with what needed to be done beforehand because I couldn't cram at the last second. 

What Did You Learn in Law School That You Weren't Expecting?

In law school, I really began to understand that multiple people can be right on a single subject, and there is no definite answer. It's like that phrase "describe the coin" - one person describes heads, and the other person describes tails because they're on the opposite sides of the coin. They're both correct because there can be more than one right answer to a question, and both people can be correct in an argument. Just because you lose in an argument doesn't mean you were wrong, and just because you won doesn't mean that the opponent's argument isn't valid. 

Also, in law school, we see a lot of familiar names in our case books, and I now have a clearer understanding of why things are done the way they are in the world.

How Do You Think Your International Experiences Both Before and During Law School Impacted Your Education and Your Career? 

It had a significant effect on me, but it wouldn't have an effect on me during the day-to-day. I was a Workers' Compensation Attorney for the past five years, and international law does factor into my specific area of law. That doesn't mean that it doesn't help in the broader sense of things when understanding the world, news, and why things are happening the way they are in the world. 

I had a big epiphany when I was at UC Santa Cruz. I lived at the International Living Center, and a lot of my friends were of different nationalities and had a different sense of law. In America, we have the legislative and judicial branches - one makes the law, and the other gets to interpret the law. In other parts of the world, their legislature gets to make and interpret the law. So, they can say, "this is the law and this is what it means," whereas, in America, they can make the law, and then it has to go to the courts to decide what exactly that means. It's definitely different. My foreign friends had a hard time wrapping their heads around that understanding. They would think if you made the law, obviously, you should know what the law entails. That's where I think our strengths come into play - the application of the law is determined by people that live in the everyday world. 

How Did You Decide To Become A Workers' Compensation Lawyer?  

That was the job that worked out for me. I would like to say that I was good at it. I enjoyed representing employers. During my discussions with them, I could see the difficulties with running a business even if they do everything they are supposed to do. There was no particular reason to go towards workers' comp, and there was no reason to avoid it either. It just happened to be the path that helped me at that point in time. It gave me a glimpse into a world I wouldn't normally have seen if I didn't know it existed. Every employer has to have workers' compensation as required by federal law. That means that no matter where you go in the United States and wherever you work, there will be workers' compensation. Workers' compensation usually goes hand in hand with business law because you have to juggle the two. Understanding worker's compensation definitely helped me understand business, as it gave me exposure to big companies and small companies. I got to see how everyone handled things differently. I got to see what worked and what didn't and, ultimately, what would result from actions or inactions on the part of various parties. 

What Role Do You Think Having a Law Degree Played in Opening Your Medical Software Company?

Legal education doesn't mean that you have to be an attorney. A legal education gives you a broad understanding of the world. It will help you understand the law and how it affects you on an everyday basis, whether it stops someone from taking advantage of you or protects you from a legal mistake that you could make. Legal education is a tool you could use to defend yourself and make a better life for yourself and those you care about. 

My legal education allowed me to develop critical thinking skills and made me familiar with why things are the way they are in the world on an everyday basis. I know what things to do and not do when it comes to running a business. My software also shows that we know what people are like on an everyday basis, and we take that into account in our software. We know what would work in the real world and what would not work in the real world. We have real-life experiences that we were brought on by our legal education. 

Can You Tell Us More About Your Company and What Your Goals Are? 

Home Care IQ, Inc. is a home health software service or SaaS product, and we'll eventually branch out into hospice. We're moving to Texas to be next to the world's largest medical center, and as a medical software company, that will definitely help, and I just got admitted to the Texas BAR this year.

I used my worker's compensation experience to help develop the software, and I also used my legal experience to argue or alter the contracts of people we're contracting with. It's always shocking for me that people don't realize that you can alter contracts. Just because people send you a contract in DocuSign doesn't mean you have to take it or leave it. You can alter contracts whenever they're sent to you. I automatically assume contracts sent are in the sender's best interest, not necessarily the receivers. If you sign contracts without looking at them and without protecting yourself, then you're in for a world of hurt. People should be treated as equals on contracts. So, I've written and argued contracts, and it takes a lot of time and effort, but people want the business, so they are usually willing to come to an agreement where it's fair for both sides. My legal education gave me the ability to make contracts in such a way that I could fully protect myself, my family, and my business from aggressive ignorance.

What Are Some Other Instances Where Your Legal Education May Have Helped You Outside of Your Career? 

There's one instance that popped up in my head. I was staying in an apartment where the landlord wasn't doing what he was supposed to do to fix things. The apartment was not what he promised or what was in the lease. I made do without necessary things and without making an issue because I needed a place to stay. Then, of course, after I left that apartment, I took Real Property with Sally Perring, and she laid out all of the state of California remedies of what would happen if a landlord was not doing what he needed to fix your property as a tenant. If I had known then what I know now, I would've had hot running water. 

What Was Your Experience with the Professors at San Joaquin College of Law?

I loved my law school professors. I love the teachers that came and taught our class after a day of practicing real law at a law firm. I'm going to shout out to Judge Conklin because he swore me into Texas. Judge Conklin is a criminal judge and also teaches Criminal Law and Criminal Procedure. He teaches you about real-life circumstances, and what I learned the most when I became an attorney is there is the law in the books, and then there's the law in fact. I also loved Professor Perring, and Professor Goodrich was another one of my favorites.

I had all these great professors that would work all day and then come talk to us about their own personal experiences. They wouldn't name names, of course, because that would be a violation, but they would use what they could so we could see the rules of law in a real-life application. It helped us understand that what they were teaching was still prevalent today.

As an attorney myself, I have no idea how they have the patience or the ability to come and then teach us and then grade our papers after an entire day of work. As a law student, there's so much to learn that you don't think about it until you are enlightened. For example, I didn't know things like detrimental reliance’s and promises and offers, acceptance, and consideration. These are all things that have a real bearing on our life, and we just don't think about them. 

What Are Some of The Benefits of Joining Student Organizations, Networking and Making Connections? 

It's very important. I would say in the legal arena, that reputation is everything, especially in an area like Fresno, because we have a big legal presence of alumni in the Central Valley. Because it's not as big as it would be in a city like Los Angeles, you're going to have to do business with the same people on a regular basis, especially if you're in the same field of work. Word gets around in your profession about how you operate and your integrity. Having networks and people that will vouch for you will go a long way for you in your legal career. You'll most likely work for, with, or against people you knew in law school. For example, when I was a workers' compensation attorney, I had a former classmate who was in workers' compensation as well, and we were both defense lawyers. So we got to see each other at the board all the time.  

It's also really easy to become very passionate about what we do because attorneys don't like to lose. You have to kind of temper it because you never want to burn bridges, either. People talk, and they will remember what you say and do, so reputation is very important, and so are your networks.

What Advice Would You Give to People Who Are Considering Law School But Are Afraid They Won't Succeed? 

Would I have been able to succeed in this program by myself? Yes. But was it easier with a core group of friends, a study partner, and a girlfriend - now wife? Yes, it was. That being said, your study group or circle doesn't need to be as big as you think it needs to be to ultimately succeed in law school. Whether you succeed or fail has nothing to do with other people, it has to do with you and your drive. So if other people say you can't do it - that's their opinion, and it doesn't really matter. If other people say you can do it, but you don't really have the drive to succeed, then you won't. Your success is based on your own efforts, so if you put in the effort, you will be rewarded, and you will succeed. Don't wait on others to do it for you, and don't wait on others to approve of you. 

Want to learn more about San Joaquin College of Law, attend our law forum or set up an appointment to discuss your law school future? Contact our Assistant Director of Admissions, Francisco "Javier" Rosas, or our Director of Admissions, Diane Steel, today!